Foreign.

So one of the big questions that a lot of new mums have is how do I introduce a new baby to the siblings?

When you've got more than you know, you're pregnant with baby number two or sometimes even number three or four.

That's one of the big questions people mums have.

Vanessa, you're a parenting coach.

Yes.

What.

What are your thoughts on that?

And a mother yourself as well.

What are your thoughts on how do we do this gently?

Because sometimes it can cause friction ruptures within a family.

What are your thoughts?

Yeah, look, let's start by saying it.

It really might.

So it's a real thing, you know, it's not just.

This is a vague possibility, it's a real thing that actually can happen in a lot of families.

Interestingly, I read a book about it.

I was in the situation of the first to the second child thinking, oh, my gosh, how do I do this?

And I read a book and I've got four children and I never had it even to this day.

So you don't have to.

I think the first thing is that the focus should not be the new baby, because if the focus is the new baby, you immediately completely rock in the world of whatever other children you've got.

And especially, I think, first to second, I think that's the big step.

You know, you got two children who, you know, sorry, two parents, one child.

So this one child's got, you know, it's great world, isn't it?

Like, everybody, everything's about me.

Yep, yep.

And often, though, if they're a first grandchild, that's also.

There's a lot of attention on one small, tiny wee thing.

Yes.

Yeah.

So, yeah.

So I suppose the question is, well, how do we do that?

We might know that we mustn't make the baby the focus, but let's face it, you've been through nine months, you've had the baby, you're exhausted.

Your focus is your baby.

So how.

Sorry, then how are you saying not to make the focus the baby?

You know, so what's your tip?

Because you're bouncing around with a little one there.

I'm bouncing around with the wee one.

So what I tend to do is.

One of the things we do is when, to begin with, when I come back from the hospital, I will.

The baby will be in, you know, in someone else's arms or in the car seat.

The baby's kind of separate from me.

And then I go to the previous youngest and give them a bit of attention and then bring them over and say, look, here is your little brother or sister.

So you know, the focus is on that child.

And then they are gently introduced.

Obviously they know that something is coming because you've had nine months and getting bigger and bigger and there's been all the cuddles and the wriggling in the tummy, but it is that, that shift.

But they see the newborn baby as like a separate entity from mummy, whereas it's, it's very easy to just have the baby, newborn baby permanently attached the whole time.

But it is, I find it's quite important in that initial meeting that there is a bit of a separation.

I also, we tend to give ourselves as a family, I think about six weeks.

You know, we say, look, there's going to be kind of chaos.

There might be tears, there might be more telly, there might be more, you know, sort of easy food, whatever it is, for the first six weeks.

And that's usually about the amount of time it takes for the whole family to kind of, for us at least to kind of clunk into their new pecking order.

Cause it's a new dynamic.

You've got a new, a new person.

The love is growing.

I mean, as a mum, the love is there already for the new baby, but for the siblings it's still intellectually, you know, there's a baby coming as much as you can as a three year old, but it's the heart that needs to grow and encompass the new one.

So, yeah, we usually say about, for us as a family, about six weeks.

And just, just winding back.

I just want to clarify, in case people missed it, the actual introduction, the actual time, like, you know, because, because quite often they're excited, aren't they?

Yeah, the children, I mean, they might.

Not always be, but quite often it's super exciting because they're gonna have a little brother or sister.

Yeah, but what you're saying is the actual introduction itself, you're.

You're not holding your baby then?

No, you.

The introduction is you and your child.

Let's just say it's.

There's, there's a child, three year old, two, two, three year old, you and the child.

And you are with your child saying, here is the new baby rather than here is my new bait.

Here is your new sister.

Right, Yeah.

I think that's a huge thing.

I think that makes a, That's a.

It speaks volumes.

It does, because.

Yes, because I was going to say the older child is introduced to the little one as a sibling rather than.

Hang on, what are you doing in Mummy's arms.

That's my place.

That's my place.

It's not the case with all the children, but a lot of the children, particularly the first to the second there is a.

Hang on, hang on.

Where am I in this?

Where am I in this?

So I think that that's quite an important.

I agree, I agree.

All right.

I just needed to clarify that because I think that's a really big thing.

I don't think, I don't recall myself doing that.

I can't really remember.

It's a bit of a blow, isn't it?

Yes.

But let, let's.

Yeah, just wanted to flag that up.

Now the second bit which was interesting was you're saying that you think about a six week bedding in period.

Yes.

Where everybody's all out of kilter.

Yeah.

And interesting, the kind of the pecking order thing.

Now I'm very into parallels with, with animals and I have a dog and you know, when you introduce a new dog into a pack of dogs, it's going to be chaos.

Right.

Out of chaos.

Actually the same with the chickens.

Sorry, but we used to have chickens as a child and you know the term henpecked?

Yes.

Like seriously.

Yeah.

And that's also where you get pecking order.

Pecking order.

It is the hierarchy as well.

It really is.

And so what you're saying is for six weeks there's this whole, like now we've got utter chaos because everybody knew their place.

They might not have liked it, but everybody knew their place.

Yeah.

And now you've gone and changed it because you've brought someone else into the fold and now you've got chaos.

And so it was kind of like what I was hearing.

More tv, some kind of easy dinners and everything.

We've got to let a few things.

I mean there's going to be a caveat about routine, but we're letting a few things slide because we're all adjusting until we get.

Till we understand the new pecking order, until we're all in the new order.

And six weeks sounds like a, you know, a good amount of time.

You know, the amount of time.

And I also think as a new mum, sort of hormonally, I mean, for me, mentally I go six weeks because it's at that point the baby usually, the newborn babies usually stop pooing in the night and you can pop a nappy on and it can stay on for however long.

So you don't have quite that interruption.

Speaking of interruptions.

Yes.

I hear shrieking in the background.

So we shall see.

And kind of hormones are starting to settle a bit and you've got more capacity for saying, do you know what?

Actually you do need to eat your vegetables.

Do you know what it is time for bath.

You know, you've just got more space for all of that.

The six weeks is sort of an interesting, it's an interesting transition period.

And I tend, I remember I went to boarding school and it was usually like that five, six week time, that first part of the autumn term before people really settled and got into their rhythm.

There seems to be something a bit sort of magical big word about that five, six weeks and things settle and then everybody.

Yes.

Has their new place.

There is a new rhythm.

Yeah.

It feels like quite an important men.

Certainly for me, an important kind of mental juncture.

Yeah, yeah.

So now what I want to bring up is what I've heard a lot of recently is a parent saying, you know, my child's been awful.

They're crying a lot, they're just so emotional, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

And when you start to ask questions, a lot of them there's been, you know, it seems like coincidence.

It's like, oh, well, we do have a new baby, but they're not in the six week thing.

And I think this is what's thrown them.

So it can happen later.

Now, I don't know if that's.

And you can help with this bit because what's happened is the parent hasn't recognized that it's due to the big shift.

So in the parent's mind, everything's been great.

You know, let's say we're six months on, everything's been great.

I don't know what's going on with my child.

And they're not relating it back to new baby.

Yeah, yep, yep.

I do.

One of the things that I do wonder as well.

And I had this certainly my, my second and third baby, we were still doing the school run because we're homeschooling now.

We were doing the school run.

And that was at a time when there was a newborn baby.

Life was still really like extra busy.

So you already had kind of the busyness of the newborn plus the kind of that.

That can be school life.

I've also come across parents who will put their little ones, you know, the next child down will go into nursery as soon as the newborn baby arrives or even like just before the newborn baby arrives.

That's, that's not, that's not ideal timing because even though intellectually it makes sense, you know, give mom a bit of space and the older one is ready to go to nursery and all of this that that child will go, I'm being rejected and replaced.

I think I told you a story last time there was a friend of mine, her father was one of three or four boys, seven years between each of them and each time a boy turned seven he was sent to boarding school and the next baby appeared again.

So I know we, it was bad enough that kids being sent away at the young age that they were without it being timed like that.

Yeah, there's an interesting one I think Mallory Towers.

I've been reading this with one of my daughters.

I think in the first book there is a child who is 12 and she's really grumpy and unhappy at the boarding school, maybe 13.

And then they discover other there's a new baby at home and this 13 year old feels she's been sent away and is really.

That's what I'm saying about these mums and they're suddenly saying, mentioning oh yeah, there is a new baby.

And I'm so glad you put in about the whole timing of the preschool because I think what we need to do is flip over to the other side and I'm not being unempathetic to the mum but let's flip over a minute and think about let's say a 2 year old, 2, 3 year and what must they be thinking?

I mean they don't understand, they know there's this excitement about a new baby.

I mean not all of them but let's go with the ones who are like so excited and they want to help with the give you the nappies, they want to poke the baby, they want to wake it up so lick.

It, lick the baby.

But they've gone from being like we already said, having the soul.

Everything is on them, everything's about them when they want it.

Like you know, they are handed to now just imagine you've got that world and I mean it would be like if you were an adult and your husband or partner or someone comes home and says we got a new flatmate, they're moving in, don't worry, it'll be okay.

They'll have that other room.

I'll be quite busy though because I'm going to have to cook their meals and I'll have to do this, that and the other for them.

But don't worry, it'll be sweet.

We'll work it out.

Okay.

Intellectually, as an adult, I might be able to go, actually, I'm still put out, by the way.

And then when it happens, oh, my goodness, I am not liking this at all.

No, no.

No matter how charming and lovely the new flatmate is, it's absolutely.

Yes, that's right.

They're great plaything.

But no, I'm incredibly put out.

And, you know, at first I might tolerate it, I might spin the positive because the parents are like, oh, it's so great.

And you know, and when you get older, you can play together, but you know what?

Six months down the line, I'll be like, you can send them back now.

We're done now.

Yeah, great experiment.

Send them back.

She's still kind of blobby and not really doing much, whereas this playmate I was promised, there's so much poo, there might be weeping.

Mummy's quite cross.

When I get back from nursery at 4 o', clock, I just.

And so then what happens is you've got all that emotion inside.

Right.

None of this can be verbalized.

Yeah.

The behavior and the emotion is the expression.

So it's going to come out as crying, as misbehavior, as kicking up a fuss.

And then to make matters worse, instead of getting some love and empathy from that, actually, you're told off and now you're the bad person while Mummy is still loving the new little blob.

Yep, yep, yep, yep.

It's it.

Yeah.

These poor little ones that just don't have the words and they've got to needs to come out.

One way or another, it has to come out.

It's really hard.

I think there's also an element of.

We seem as a culture to have this idea of children being really resilient, yet at the same time we have to kind of hover over them.

It's a very sort of interesting tension.

We need to make sure that later on, you know, all the activities are done and educationally they're doing well and blah, blah, blah, so.

And their emotional needs are fine, but at the same time there is this strange sense of, well, they'll survive.

And I don't think we quite realize that things like a job change, a new baby, illness of a parent, you know, or these kind of things, they can have a profound effect.

Even though the day keeps having a rhythm or the weeks keep having a rhythm, these little ones, they really absorb it.

They're aware in a way.

We can't.

We don't understand or find difficult to understand.

And also they are feeding off.

When I do my talks, I do an analogy of a radio, you know, the old style radio, and you tune it in.

Now your child is tuned into the radio station that you're playing.

So if you as a new mummy are a little bit tense or a little bit stressed or a little bit postnatal depression, your child is feeling it.

So you know what?

It might not even be their emotions that they're expressing.

And that's even more baffling for them because it's not even theirs.

You know, like sometimes you feel anxious and you don't know why, but it's because the environment is anxious.

So it might not even be their own.

So remember that what you're going through, they're feeling it.

Like we're, you know, we all feel what each other feels.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

We absolutely pick it up.

And it was interesting, actually, I think it was the other day.

This is just personal anecdote.

I met a lady, a lovely, very, very nice lady.

And then I came away and I felt like a sort of awkward teenager again.

It was really weird and I thought, why do I feel so, excuse my language, why do I feel so shit?

And then I went, oh, this lady was kind of the vision of the girl, the kind of the popular girl, the in girl when I was 13, 14, beautifully put together, tanned, clearly very sporty and athletic.

All the things.

Grumpy1, clearly all the things.

And she was fine.

But it was interesting that that kind of just her presence was enough to kind of trigger things in me.

And I really had to kind of again, sit with it and think about it.

Go.

This is, this is an interesting, interesting.

So I think as mums, sorry, just to add another thing to our plate, but we do need to be a little bit aware of, as you say, the environment, our own emotions, not beating ourselves up about it, acknowledging, yes, I'm anxious about this, or there's this struggle, but then realizing our little ones will feel it as well.

And to give.

I see them as a.

Sorry, I see them as a reflection.

Like if your child is upset, actually ask yourself, am I, am I okay?

Am I calm?

Because quite often they're just mirroring, they're just expressing.

And it is good that they're expressing it, by the way.

Yes, I'm all for not shutting things down.

So it's really good, sorry to say, Even if they're having meltdowns and tantrums, which I know are dreadful because my kids, I had a couple Couple of kids who did the kind of the two hour things.

So I know it's not pleasant, but the expression is good.

Please don't shut the expression down.

But yeah, they might, they might be just expressing that mirror of you.

So just before you kind of feel they're the one being difficult.

Yes.

Think about what's coming from you.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And then we get it as well later on, don't we?

When we hear our words, both good and bad reflected in our children, we go, oh, oh dear.

Yeah, yeah, we've taught them well.

Yeah, we've taught them well in many ways.

So for good of real.

So yes, it is a very, very sort of interesting.

It is interesting, this dynamic.

And I think, I don't know, I mean, I think if you've got more children, that does help because you have the older ones to kind of entertain and soften the blow a bit.

If you're going, as you said, from one to two children, that's probably the biggest jump, I think.

So, yeah.

You've really rocked the world of that child who's had two years of being very special.

Yeah, yeah.

And then, and then when you get to three, it's chaos anyway because you're outnumbered.

So just keep going, just keep going after that doesn't matter, it's still bonkers.

So.

But yes, I mean, is there.

It's quite interesting.

Why do you think it's come about recently?

Because you're saying recently this has been a topic amongst your mums.

What do you think's going on?

I don't know.

I mean, I think it may be because they're not seeing the connection and it's coming in a little bit later.

Um, I'm just, I'm seeing a lot of.

I'm still seeing.

Too many parents are wanting to try and affect the behavior rather than looking at what's underneath it.

And so when the child's having a meltdown, and I get it, you want to know what's going on for them and try and explain it.

And it does make it harder because when it seems a senseless kind of tantrum, you know, and it's.

Of course it's only a tantrum.

It's like adults having arguments, you know, over the rubbish or whatever.

It's a senseless thing because you cut up the thing when you weren't supposed to cut it or you cut it the wrong way and you know, of course it's not about that.

So I think it's parents just skipping over the.

What we need to do when they're having the meltdown is be there for them.

We need to be the calm for them to help them feel calm.

And so actually, in some ways, we don't really need to know what it's about, because the first step is we're not trying to fix the behavior, but we're trying to help them to be calm.

And that's the same.

Whatever it's about.

It doesn't matter.

You need to be the calm for them.

If you say, like, just calm down.

I mean, goodness me.

If I'm in a state and my partner says, just calm down.

Not a good idea.

Might inflame me a little bit more.

And then they come with the logic as well.

No, no, no.

We don't do logic when we're having meltdowns.

Okay, Forget the logic.

So it's really.

Whatever's going on.

Don't worry about what's going on and don't worry about the behavior.

There's another one that's going on at the minute, which is lying.

Parents getting upset about the kids.

Lying.

I'm like, don't worry about the behavior.

Just get to what's behind it.

And you need to be there for them.

You need to be the calming influence for them.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I think I'm going to give a little bit of marriage advice.

Something that really helped us as a couple.

Bit of a tangent.

I sometimes have to.

Because the husbands want to come in and fix things.

The logic when you're just.

Which is.

Which is great, but that isn't usually what you want.

So I'm.

I'm outright quite clear to my husband, I will say, I'm going to have a grumble.

I don't need it fixed.

Please just listen.

And then he literally, he goes, okay.

And you can see this kind of change, and that's all I need.

No, that's exactly right.

And I think it's exactly right for the children as well.

Like, before you try and fix it, you've got to be there and empathize and.

And help them to calm.

Yeah, don't try and fix anything.

So actually, it's a really good analogy.

It's the.

The masculine energy of fixing and, I don't know, the woman.

We sometimes step into our masculine energy at the wrong time.

Okay.

Wrong time, guys.

Be feminine.

Be like a secure person for sure.

But also with that empathy first, before we get to fixing anything.

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Thank you for keeping this kitchen conversation going.

Exactly, exactly.

And then I think what's also useful in those moments when we have to, let's say the child's having the collywobbles and you just need to sit there.

They don't even want to be held.

They're just having their moment.

That's kind of a good time to go through.

I tend to have a little bit of a mental checklist.

What could be causing this?

Are they hungry?

Are they thirsty?

Are they tired?

So you go through kind of the things you can deal with.

Has it been like a crazy day at nursery or a crazy day at home?

Okay, that could be a factor.

If you go through everything, you're like, no, fed, watered, rested, been a calm day.

That's when you start to go to kind of bigger picture things.

All right, bigger picture, what's been going on.

And sometimes it is just a case of going through that quick checklist.

There's another thing that you can do because that's really good, go through that checklist.

And you can be doing that, as you said, while you're sitting there doing the calm thing.

So at least you've got something else to do now if you're doing that frequently.

The other thing that we look for in my counseling and life coaching is patterns.

Yes.

So start being aware of the patterns.

Is it always after nursery?

Is it always before dinner?

You know, again, you're helping to knock off those, those easy ones before we go deep and go, right.

What else could be going on?

What else?

What could they be needing now?

Yeah, yeah.

And I mean, that's the sort of work I focus on as well as helping that kind of 4 to 8pm chaos.

What is it you can do to sort of stave it off?

I think have a glass of wine, isn't it?

Oh, no, sorry, that's for me.

No, no, no.

Gin for me.

Gin for me.

Although I have discovered non alcoholic gin, so I still feel fabulous, but without the.

Without the effects.

Exactly.

Perfect.

Perfect.

That's the way to do it.

So, yes, it's interesting, this whole motherhood malarkey, the way we have to put together patterns and pull apart problems.

I don't think people necessarily realize just how strategic it is until you're in it.

And sometimes it needs to be pointed out as well.

By the way, it's not just a surface thing.

There's like big emotions and bigger things happening.

So, yeah, no, it is very interesting.

It's very interesting.

So, yes, for you to be coming across this struggle of new siblings after the six weeks, even six months later, really fascinating.

Really fascinating.

Are there other things that your mums, your clients are struggling with at the moment that you've seen a pattern with that could be easily resolved, or it's sort of just an interesting pattern to observe?

No, the biggest thing is tantrums and meltdowns and emotions.

And I do think that unfortunately, to do with the world that we're living in where parents are so stressed and we're trying to do way, way, way more than is humanly possible, we're all trying to be superhuman.

Even if you think you're not, that's still way more.

And it's just creating that environment of stress for the child.

And so I, you know, if possible, I'd love people to sort of think, if my child's upset and struggling, have a look at yourself, because it's possibly you who's struggling, because they're going to struggle if you're struggling.

And it's much easier, in theory, possibly easier to fix for yourself than trying to fix somebody else.

So rather than trying to sort your child whilst you're still create, you know, you're still an anxious FM as the radio station and you're trying to move them onto what?

What do I like my 80s.

I like 80s music.

He's pop jollity.

So.

So, yeah, I always say you've got to retune the radio station and that and that's you.

And I know it's hard.

I'm not saying it's easy, but I'm just trying to direct the focus.

The easier thing is changing your radio station because theirs will change after.

Yeah, yeah.

I'm going to throw in another thought as well.

Just thinking about kind of school run nursery, that kind of Busy, Busy.

Yeah.

We, again, sort of culturally, we feel we have to do this, we have to go to nursery, we have to be at school, we've got to be there, got to be punctual and all the things, but we've got to do all the activities.

And my countercultural suggestion is when you've got a new baby is actually like, no, you tell the head teacher, we're going to be late, we're going to be late and there's no space for, you know, actually, I don't care if it's going to affect your numbers or your attendance records.

That's not my problem.

That actually, for all these months, it's so hard, but it's not your problem.

This is your family, your children, your responsibility.

And to say, just we need to take time, we're going to cut out activities for a term because the important thing is you as a mum, coping, coming back to getting off anxious fm and then you can support the children.

Because this will throw back in.

The caveat, though, the caveat.

Don't forget about routine.

No, no, no, this is.

No, no, absolutely.

You want that.

I'm going to go with rhythm during this time.

I'm going to push back a bit with rhythm and say, look, you're aiming to drop the children off at nine, a quarter to nine, but if it's going to be like 20 minutes.

No, if it's going to be 20 minutes later, half an hour later, you just, I mean, let the people know who you know the, again, head teacher, school teacher, nursery, whatever it is, let them know we're going to do our best.

But at the same time, there might be mornings, it just goes wrong and we'll be late or maybe even I'm just, we're going to have to pull a sickie and we need to have a day at home as a family and we will call that a sick day.

I think the, being, the being honest and transparent but also pushing back if you get the pressure.

Oh, but we got the absentee register, we got to consider and blah, blah, blah.

No, that's, that's, that's, this sounds terrible.

That's their problem.

Your responsibility and privilege is to look after your family.

I know.

Because there you are in the morning and you're trying to get the socks and shoes on and it's just not happening.

There's a big meltdown and you kind of go, okay, so do we scramble into the car, throw the socks and shoes in, hope maybe that they're there by the time we get to school?

Do we arrive without socks and shoes on?

Like, how much stress do we take?

Like, at what point do we go, this is ridiculous.

Something's gotta give.

Yeah, yeah.

And I, I, I mean, I'm very much of the school that the external has to give, that we need to be saying, actually, who am I?

Who am I living for?

Is it the demands from outside or is it these little ones and quite frankly, my own sanity and health and stress levels.

Because if you as a mum are, I'm going to use strong language.

If you as a mum are broken or ill, I mean, or even, even worse, everything falls apart for your little family.

So it's so important that we, we do protect that.

Well, while we're talking about the mum.

Let's talk about what.

What happens a lot for mums is their needs aren't met.

And this is why it starts to fall apart.

And we, a lot of us as mums, you say, oh, gosh, hats off to those.

I see them sometimes, those mums who are, they're not, they're not like the people pleasers and they are going to address their own needs.

And I'm always like, how do you do that?

But you know what?

We have needs, core emotional needs, and we still need our connection, we still need our significance, we still need these things and yet we give them away and then the whole thing falls apart.

So, mums, it might seem to you like a luxury to have your coffee with a friend.

It's not actually.

That is your absolute foundation block.

Have your things, you have your needs, and you must, must put them in for the sake of your family and yourself.

It's so true.

I had this weekend, actually a reminder.

So my husband had been working from home.

He's now full time in the office.

So we've had a shift, significant shift within our family dynamic.

And, you know, it's.

Weekdays are fine.

And then we had a really busy weekend where he was out and about doing things, driving with the children, all of this.

And I was at home with the little ones and I realized I'm actually starting to go quite crackers here.

I've not had my running away time because it just got busy and we were doing stuff as a family, blah, blah, blah.

And I went, actually, I'm really struggling.

And I articulated this to him, I said, this is not an accusation at all.

This is an observation.

I have struggled today.

We know what the answer is.

So we gotta, you know, going forward, this is gonna be quite an important thing to really put boundaries around.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Deeply, deeply important.

I mean, it's good that you know and you recognize it.

See, a lot of mums, they don't know, they don't recognize it, they can't call it out.

And of course, calling out in a way that doesn't sound like it's an accusation.

I mean, it's all very tricky.

So there's a lot of learning to do.

Yeah, yeah.

Because then there's sometimes the, oh, don't you love being with us?

We're spending time together.

And then you go, yeah, but I do need different things as well.

As you were saying, the time with the, with the friends, maybe it's more of an intellectual challenge.

Maybe it's silence.

Maybe it's nature.

It's.

Yeah.

Deeply, deeply important, especially when you're at.

Home, like you're homeschooling, but there's other mums who are home because the kids are home, you know, not yet at school.

And I mean, I was not.

Was not really one for spending 100% of my time at home.

I needed my adult.

Yeah.

You know, I'm with other adults.

I needed stimulation, intellectual.

Didn't have enough.

I just didn't have enough, and it's so detrimental.

Yeah, yeah.

I mean, one of the things I've reflected on, because I listened to an awful lot of podcasts, so I just was thinking, wow, you can listen to some of the greatest minds and audiobooks and things like that.

So that kind of feeds me intellectually.

And then I had a poignant moment where I went up.

I've realized that the podcasts in some ways are replacing the community, the chatter of the mums, which is.

Yeah, yeah, that was.

That was quite a. Oh, an oh moment.

Yeah, yeah.

It's.

It is interesting.

Modern times in which we live.

The modern times.

So.

Yeah, yeah.

Vanessa, have you got any other thoughts, tips from your experience coaching and supporting.

Supporting new mums or mums in general?

Do you know, I think I've probably covered it all, really, because I very much delve into what's behind that behavior is just a communication of something that's going on.

And again, even with adult clients who I see, I do a lot of adult relationships as well, and it's so much easier with people who can express.

So don't shut your children down.

Please let them express.

I know it's painful, painful on the ears, painful on the body, but please, the expression is good.

Then we just divert it.

Even anger.

Okay.

If it's.

If it's anger, because a lot has been held in, we just.

Just direct it safely, but don't shut it down.

Yeah, yeah.

I've got one thought.

I'd like to hear your thoughts.

So the child chucks the collywobble in the supermarket.

In another child's party, you're out and about.

So my policy is essentially abort mission.

We pick up the child and we leave.

That's just.

Abort mission.

This is not.

This is not working.

It has to stop now.

The reason I do that is, number one, sort of calmer space, more familiar space.

If we're heading home or something helps.

The second point as well.

I kind of feel that the child is in such a vulnerable situation that I don't.

I've got this kind of sense of dignity for the child.

I don't want people to see the child like that.

It's not actually about me, but it's the child in a really vulnerable moment and everybody around staring at that child.

So I kind of, I have this.

I feel that their honor and dignity needs to be preserved as well as the calming down.

So that's why I say I bought Mission Go.

Yeah.

Supermarket or the child's birthday party, whatever it is, that is not important.

The child is important and where that child is at is important.

What are your thoughts on that?

So I've got one of my programs is about going shopping.

Yeah.

And so obviously we have half the times what we're trying to do is prepare for it because, you know, now you aborted the supermarket, you have no food to eat.

You know, always realistic.

So yes and no.

So what we want to do is we want to be prepared for it.

So if it's a one off, that's fine.

But what we do do is absolutely kind of what you said in the supermarket or wherever it is, if there's a big meltdown, you actually do abandon ship, abandoned trolley.

But not necessarily to go home, go outside and do a reset.

Because it's really good learning to learn to reset.

Because I mean, if I'm an adult, I'm a mom and.

Or, sorry, I'm just an adult in the supermarket and I'm having a bad day and I have a meltdown because I haven't got the thing I need for the ingredients for the special dinner, blah, blah, blah.

I need to learn how to do that.

And even as an adult, if I need to go out, if I'm still at the point where I need to go out, calm down, reset, come back in.

But you know, we're learning, we're teaching them for when they're an adult how to reset.

So I would say you don't necessarily have to go home, go out and do a reset.

Yeah.

Again, it needs the luxury of time, which a lot of mums don't have, which is why you just need to prepare for it.

So there's all sorts of things we can do to prepare for like a shopping trip going well.

But if you haven't done your prep and you're new to it and.

Or it did just go wrong today.

Yeah.

Just, just abandon your trolley and just go outside and do a reset.

If you can't get the calmness.

I mean, I had one and we, I don't know, it felt like ages.

My daughter was having a tantrum.

And I just stopped and I just waited.

It was on the street and she stopped and I was like, there.

I'm such a good mom.

And then so we started walking again.

And then, oh, she kicked off again.

I did have the luxury of time, so we did manage it.

Yeah.

So she got to the point where she could calm herself down.

But, yeah, I think it's hard when you don't have time.

That's when it's tricky.

So, yeah.

Does that demand again, does that demand upon the mum and the father to kind of have a sit down and reflect on, okay, what's going on in our lives?

What needs to be.

What the time.

Factor in terms of, like, the bit.

The busyness of modernity.

Busy, busy, busy.

What is it that we could do that means we're not so busy?

Well, the thing is, you could make.

You can make supermarket a real good educational trip, but what you want to do is you want to start slowly the first day, just get your bread and milk and have success and then build it up to the full shop.

That's the ideal world because it's a really.

There is so much you can teach them whilst you're going around the supermarket.

But it can be absolutely fabulous.

So don't rule it out.

Learn how to work with it.

Look, sometimes they might just have a meltdown unexpectedly, and that's okay.

It's just about not getting upset that it's happened.

Clearly.

Yeah.

Not for you, for the mum.

I say don't go.

Don't switch to anxious fm because then, you know, you probably do need to abort mission completely and go home.

If you're an anxious fm, game over.

Yeah, it's all.

It's just like, no, done.

We are done.

I need the gym all the while.

Yes.

Not today.

Maybe tomorrow, but not today.

Not today.

Yes.

And again, giving yourself grace and saying, it's okay today.

Tomorrow's another day.

We start afresh.

We start afresh.

So, Vanessa, that was fantastic.

Thank you so much.

Where can people find you?

Because you also have your own podcast.

So tell us about that.

I've got a podcast as well these days.

Yes.

I'm with a coaching colleague of mine, Chaos, Courage and Coffee.

So that's for the mums or the dads, you know, not for the children.

So lots of tips on that.

And that's on YouTube and on Spotify.

Great.

And then I have my parenting programs and I have a website and I'm also on social media.

So, Vanessa Kultas or Life Mentoring nz.

And you'll find me yes.

All over the place with all my parenting tips.

Brilliant.

And also, I'll put all the details in the show notes.

But thank you so much for your time.

And if you've enjoyed this and you are pregnant and baby number two or maybe even number three is coming, do have a listen to my conversation with the midwife, Lisa Nichols.

There'll be a video somewhere.

You can have a bit of a reminder as to what is coming and encouragement as well.

All right.

Thank you so much, Vanessa.

Bye.

Lovely to chat.