Every Birth is a Miracle || A Conversation with Lisa Nicholls, Midwife

Hello everybody and welcome to the Real Life Real Kitchen podcast with me your host Zoe

Willis.

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This week I've got a friend of mine from the parish, Lisa Nicholls, who is a midwife of...

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A few years experience, Lisa?

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30 odd years experience.

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And em this feels very timely because we were just saying we know about probably about 10

ladies at the moment who are due babies between

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So I thought this might be quite a good conversation to have because having had many

babies myself and I have questions.

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I just have questions for somebody who's on the other side, the receiving end of the

babies and the birth.

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which is why, yes, Lisa was very kindly and very gamely said, yes, she would answer my

question.

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So here we go.

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And I feel I've got a little face behind me.

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Go on, away with you.

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Thank you.

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So Lisa, to start with, you're originally from Texas, but you're now in the UK.

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How, from that to UK midwife, how did that happen?

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very interestingly.

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I started a nursing career, actually, in Scotland and became an enrolled nurse there.

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And then I want to become a registered nurse and

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In Aberdeen, they didn't think that I was registered nurse material.

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So I applied to America and I went to Virginia and did my registered nurse there.

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90 average, got a scholarship, um worked my way through, had three jobs, um and then

qualified.

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And yeah.

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And then some things happened at home.

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I was called back to Scotland.

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My stepmom had cancer at the time.

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She needed help.

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So I basically dropped everything.

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I was sick.

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Children's.

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uh

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I don't know what's for lunch darling, we'll do that later.

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Yes.

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And then come back to the UK.

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And so I was unemployed for a while and just helped out at home.

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Things got better and.

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But that's intentionally on, intentionally on employment.

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Yeah.

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I had to come on home, help look after my family.

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So, you know, my dad's family and, and, and it was suggested about midwifery.

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And I was like, Ooh, midwifery.

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Hmm.

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Then uh I went and had an interview down in Greenwich with a scene oh in Greenwich and I

my midwifery there, but they said, hang on.

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You don't you're not a British nurse registered nurse.

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So you better get your British registered nurse first.

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Okay.

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even though you've had all the qualifications, all the scholarships, blah, Right.

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Yes, yes, yes.

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So I needed to work at the hospital for three months while they observed me, uh make sure

that I was a real proper registered nurse.

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And within like a week or so, they stopped, seemed to supervise me and left me to run the

ward.

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I was like, okay, I'm not getting paid for this.

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But we had lots of fun.

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Good.

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It was really good.

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Yeah, then I started midwifery and finished my midwifery there in Greenwich.

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um

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was that to transfer from being a nurse to a midwife?

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I presume it's shorter than a full, you know, whatever three, four year course.

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Yes, it's 18 months, but depending.

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Yeah, because there's two parts to the exam.

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Yeah, at the time I was dating my husband and failed my midwifery exams and he failed X

exams.

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Were they possibly a bit too distracted?

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Yes.

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distracted.

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So I reset my exams and when I reset my I was pregnant and big bump.

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I came waddling into the midwifery exam and I said oh exam this is phase number three is

it?

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I.e.

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having your own.

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The real experience.

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Having a good midwife.

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because this is something of that will come back to your to a story as well.

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But this is something I've observed and I've seen it in teachers as well as midwives.

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When a midwife has their own children, there is a softening.

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There is a uh a softening.

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uh I'm not going to say that they're kind of completely loosey goosey and relaxed about

what's happening, but it's a bit less tick boxy.

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It's a bit more trusting.

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The woman knows what's happening to her body.

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Would that be...

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And then when the babies arrive, also a sense that the mothers kind of know that there's

something wrong or something right with their babies.

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Would that be a fair kind of...

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yes, absolutely.

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Absolutely.

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um There's so many things that I think midwifery isn't just a science.

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It's an.

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And there is such a human element that you cannot take away from the whole experience.

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It is so wholly human.

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There's no textbook that could ever cover everything.

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It's just one of those.

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It's like art.

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No two are the same.

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It's non-repeatable.

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Yeah, um well, I tell you, a lot of prayers are very much said under my breath.

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Mm-hmm.

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Yeah

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really in as much control as we think we are.

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Let's put it that way.

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And midwifery is a beautiful example of that in action.

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Yeah, yeah, that trust.

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that yeah because you can't see inside you don't know exactly what's going on you got a

good idea

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Yeah.

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But there's no absolute.

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and having been through it yourself as well.

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It's an understanding of what kind of pain is or where they are within the labor and all

of this.

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Having experienced it, it's more of a, yes, yes, I remember this.

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I understand what that is.

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Absolutely.

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There's an, em

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It's a listening.

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You have to listen to your body, I think.

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And I don't know how well that can be taught.

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Yeah.

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It's just, um...

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Yup.

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I've forgotten what I was going to say.

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Let's go back to you come into your exam and you're heavily pregnant, baby number one.

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Yeah, I passed.

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It was great.

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And yeah, I started working.

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um I worked full time, part time.

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I can't remember.

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Yeah, but they had to put me into, em you know, the section where the diabetic, poor

diabetic moms have to drink the stuff and have you over an hour or two.

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um That was my first job because I was so heavily pregnant.

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that I actually deliver other people.

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want to say you can't really bend over.

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Both you and the mum will be rolling around on the ground going, what are we going to do?

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Blind-feeding the blind a bit.

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Wonderful.

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So you had your first child and there was the, I like to use the word balancing, but we

could go with juggling, motherhood plus work.

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How did that go?

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Because again,

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I have come across other midwives in the past who will do night shift so they can be at

home with the little ones.

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How did you kind of balance this?

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How did I do?

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Actually, yeah, I I worked part time.

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I didn't work time once I had my first baby.

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um And of course, it was childminder, you know, had to drop off and pick up and things

because husband was working full time.

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Yeah, it was that sort of thing.

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ah

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Yeah, wasn't it wasn't always 100%.

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But everyone got to bed alive.

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That's the important thing.

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They did.

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They did.

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They did.

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So how many years have you been a midwife for?

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I'm just trying to think.

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um

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the nursing beforehand, that was a few years, and then the midwifery on top of that.

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Yes.

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Oh, so I think I qualified as a nurse in 88.

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Um, qualified as a midwife in 90.

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Yeah.

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Okay.

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Um, yeah.

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So whatever, how many years that is, but I'm retired now.

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how many babies over all those years, how many babies did you deliver?

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Now, we have to deliver at least 100 before I qualify.

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So that was before I qualified.

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And then since, let's probably triple that.

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But yeah, I've moved to from, yeah, we have different roles in Midwifery.

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And I really, really love the role of community midwife.

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Where you're out.

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um doing the clinics, doing the teaching, doing the antenatal classes, um home visits,

helping mom's breastfeed.

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That seemed to be my forte.

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So yeah, I gravitated towards that and I did that and enjoyed the home birth.

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And there were less.

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There weren't so many as hospital.

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It get very busy on the week.

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And sometimes you don't have that time to really get to know people.

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As a community member, if you got to know your ladies as such.

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And you help them through the whole pregnancy and then they would have their and it was

just such a nice thing.

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And even if you weren't at the delivery, you can see them afterwards.

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um Yeah, it was a relationship.

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Yeah, and I think that's the thing that strikes me, which is an interesting thing because

I've had for various reasons, my babies have appeared in hospital and you have this

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wonderful connection with the community midwife and then you go into hospital and it's a

bit, who are you?

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What's going on?

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It's all quite, yeah, it's a bit rushed.

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Yeah, yeah, it doesn't feel, but...

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it's not something.

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the sense, again I'm getting the sense this is just observation.

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Is it different temperaments of midwives, those who work in the hospital versus those who

work in the community?

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What draws one midwife to say, you know, I love the hospital work or another one who says,

you know, I'm loving the community work and having that connection?

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What's the...

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Yes, I think in hospital, in like delivery suite, you get some very, very good clinicians.

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They are experts in what they do.

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They work in a high pressure environment, quite fast moving, I would say highly

intelligent.

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um They don't want to sit around and be bored.

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It's that personality I think attracts.

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Delivery streets.

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The people who would really enjoy emergency room.

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You know, there are those types.

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ah I'm not one of them.

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uh

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Hahaha!

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goodness there are people like that so that you've got kind of the full spectrum even

within midwifery.

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everyone is different and every midwife is different.

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yeah, I think you find your niche, find what you're good at and what makes you happy.

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yeah.

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And that will also reflect on the women and the babies you're helping.

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If you are sort of, yes, I'm in the right role for me, then there is an ease with your,

with the way you work and the way you support the women.

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Yes, absolutely.

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Yes.

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again, you're talking about being in a hospital setting and you've got your high powered,

highly intelligent clinicians and all of that.

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Again, something I've noticed, had multiple babies and been through this once or twice, uh

there is quite a cultural difference between obstetricians, so the doctors, and midwives.

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It's, it's okay.

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So again, my sense is

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The doctors are quite bish-bash-bosh and it's again a bit tick-boxy.

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It's a bit tick-boxy.

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uh

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And I understand, kind of rightly so, because you're looking after the health of the

mother and the baby, it can sometimes veer into being quite terrifying and sometimes

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feeling like you don't have as much choice as you possibly do.

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I'm thinking, so for example, VBAC, vaginal birth after cesarean and things, there's quite

a lot of uh concerns and worries, which I wonder, for example, pushes more people into,

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more mothers into having

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another caesarean when they might possibly have been able to have a natural birth.

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know, that isn't necessarily a support it.

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Whereas, yeah, what are your thoughts?

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I wouldn't think you do have to explain, very clearly is from an obstetrician or a

doctor's point of view.

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Be fair, they have to explain to you.

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A scenario.

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OK, so.

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Although they always come in and they always, oh, doom and gloom, here he comes.

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No, that is their role.

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That is their job.

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um Yeah, they have to inform you of like all the things that can go wrong during a

procedure.

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um And that is their job.

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They would be negligent if they didn't tell you.

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On the other hand, you're on the receiving end.

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and you're hearing this information of all things that can go wrong, it is terrifying.

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It really is terrifying, but you must hold in your head the fact that this is their job

and they have to tell you about all the horrible things.

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And it doesn't necessarily mean that that is going to happen to you.

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And it is very hard to keep that in your head.

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when they're telling you all these things, because you think, my goodness, that's gonna

happen to me.

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He's telling me what's happening or what's gonna happen.

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And it's not necessarily, but he's to inform you of all the things that could go wrong.

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So you make an informed decision.

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um And as long as you have that clearly in your head, his role and what he needs to say,

uh

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The ultimate decision is with you.

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Yeah.

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And they're not trying to take your power away.

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And they're not necessarily trying to scare you to death.

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It is their job.

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It is their job to do that.

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And they would be negligent if they didn't.

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You know, ah but that's a different role.

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And as a role as a midwife, we are there to promote the mom as such and what she wants.

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And we can try and understand.

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where she's going and we're trying to put the two worlds together.

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You know, the doctor has to tell you and this is what this and we're going to have a

deadline here because I think that is we don't get this baby out by 10 p.m.

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ah We can head into trouble.

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And so the midwives job is to try and make those two worlds obstetrics and mommy's having

babies.

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ah into a safe place somewhere in the middle.

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So actually it's more the role of almost a mediator.

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Because again, from the outside, I'd almost seen like obstetrics running parallel, not

quite parallel to midwifery.

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But I think that's very beautiful having, yes, the midwife is more of that mediator

between the two.

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That makes a lot more sense.

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Okay.

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Yeah.

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We're trying to find a happy medium.

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Yes, we want a mommy and a happy baby at the end of the day.

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Yes.

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so.

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OK.

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And isn't there much communication between obstetrics and midwives as in their meetings

and discussing particular cases?

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you have that kind of?

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Yes, absolutely.

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We do.

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We do case reviews.

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Absolutely.

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Very learning.

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um It's something that's very valuable.

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Learning.

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And one of the most valuable things is we take cases and we go through them and we go, ah

what could have gone better here?

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You know, that wasn't so great.

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What can we do better there?

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And it's also we also have our own self um

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not self-review, but we have these reviews for ourselves that we're constantly having to

keep up to date.

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And we've had this for a long time and they're starting to bring that in with even regular

nurses.

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um But yeah, it's one of these things we've had that we've had been learning all the time.

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You're constantly learning and updating and...

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How can that go better?

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How can you do that better?

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Yeah.

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and improve things.

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And yes, I suppose it's moved on a bit from that Monty Python sketch of the bells and the

whistles when the lady's trying to have the baby and all the doctors come in and all the

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noise.

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I'll put a link in the show notes for that one because I think that's what late 70s, early

80s.

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So it's a bit of its time.

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But I'll put that in the show notes and then people can watch and see what things used to

be used to be like.

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or the uh satirical interpretation of that.

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oh now coming back to all of these learned clinicians and like billions of babies being

born all over the world over thousands of years, why are due dates just like reading the

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tea leaves, Lisa?

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I mean, I just...

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I get, know, I'll go in dutifully when was the date of, you know, your last period

finished and I'll be like, maybe about here.

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And then I'm given a due date and I'll say, well, I'll be due two weeks later because I've

had several babies and I've baked them for a long time.

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And they look at me and they go, well, actually the midwives are pretty good, but I go to

the obstetricians and I really have to push for the fact I baked the babies for a long

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time.

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I don't know, the due dates.

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I've met one person who's had their baby on their due date.

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How do we not know this?

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How?

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I mean, what starts a birth?

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How do we not know?

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This is great.

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Do you know what?

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I wish I had a crystal ball ah that could tell you.

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ah But I must go back to facts that every woman is different.

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Not everyone has a 28 day cycle.

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Funny enough, ah talk horror.

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And that's what those books they come out and those books that you have a 28 day cycle and

it's just not true.

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I personally had a 35 day cycle that really threw everything off.

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yeah!

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um I think that's why they're so keen nowadays for the scan.

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They do the crown rump length, they do the femur length, come up, they put it in an

algorithm, they come up with a date.

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It's supposed to be pretty accurate.

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But again, how accurate is measuring the baby who's wiggling around in your womb while

they.

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The sonographer is trying to do a picture and take a measurement.

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I mean it's bad enough just taking a photo of a child on the outside, trying to keep

still, I mean.

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uh

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Yeah, never mind.

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They're floating in fluid.

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They can kind of do whatever they want uh at any angle.

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uh So how accurate is your I mean, they have come a long way.

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That's I mean, they really have.

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mean, their stuff, their equipment.

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Fantastic.

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Yeah.

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Second to none.

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I've seen their new stuff.

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It's amazing.

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ah

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Yeah, I was just in there and I was like, the equipment certainly certainly has improved.

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um But that's really funny because some women know their dates.

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They know when the baby was conceived.

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So it's it's really.

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um Yeah, trying.

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I tend to listen to the women.

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Thank you, Lisa.

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Because they tend to know.

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And um I think, yeah, if you have a discretion between the date they give you and the date

that you know exactly, you can talk to your obstetrician, you can talk to your midwife and

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have that discussion.

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Yeah, yeah.

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And I think I've definitely found that with the more babies I've had, that I can kind of

advocate and say, this is the pattern.

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This is the kind of the compromise I'm happy to make or the situation and people are much

more, okay, yep, that's fine.

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I would uh definitely, as you move along, there is more of a, yeah.

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mean the whole reason they do the date thing is because the placenta ages.

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it does absolutely absolutely.

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And it can decrease it.

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Its function can decrease.

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And the baby can be getting less nutrients.

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The baby could be not getting enough.

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And it can be an issue.

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So that's why ah we need to keep an eye on dates.

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It's because we know the placenta doesn't function very well after some time.

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Yeah.

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And yeah, people know also the fact that, you know, during the end, it's, um you don't

want them over, over, overcooked.

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Yeah, yeah, no, absolutely.

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And I mean, certainly this is the conversation I've had with in the past, because I baked

them long, I will say, right, here is my limit.

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And then it's going in for an elective caesarean.

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You know, this is the date I'm happy to do that.

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em And then the baby arrives beforehand.

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So it's usually fine.

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But yes, and also saying things like, no, not going to be induced.

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That's no, thank you very much.

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But

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having that kind of a discussion about, yes, where is the date going to be?

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Where's the cutoff limit?

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And, and coming in for regular scans and this sort of thing.

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is, it is the meter.

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It isn't even meeting halfway.

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It becomes a good, a good conversation.

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Although I have to admit, I think temperament of obstetrician has helped with that in the

past, because I've had a couple who've been a bit, but then a couple have just been just

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great, just great.

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And usually once you've had children themselves again.

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It's interesting, isn't it?

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It's very interesting.

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yeah, again, it's that softening.

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It's that softening.

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So, okay.

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You have seen many births, you have seen and helped many mothers, you've had your own

births, six, in fact.

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So again, you've had a variety.

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I mean, I also have thoughts that the temperament of the baby is reflected in the birth.

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I've seen that in a few times.

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oh What would you say is...

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What makes for a good birth?

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Now, after I had my first, I started reading a lot of Michel O'Donn, had them, for those

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set up a birth clinic in a place called Pithivier in France, where he essentially said,

leave the mums alone, don't put them on their back in stirrups because that's going

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against gravity.

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All you need is the woman in a quiet place and the midwife knitting in the corner.

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I mean, his he was saying that 99 % of his births were all natural.

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1 % needed emergency help.

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Another interesting thing he said was no husbands do not have the men around because it

kind of closes things up as soon as the men pop out for a cup of tea or go to the loo.

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That's when the baby arrives.

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So

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Mm-hmm.

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I thought that was, yeah, so that was just a really fascinating, it was a really

fascinating read.

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um yeah, and I went to a few talks of uh midwives who'd worked with him in the past, you

know, it was quite, quite amazing.

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So there's Michelle O'Donnell.

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But actually, Sir Nichols, best case scenario, best case scenario for births, what makes

for a good birth?

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Yes, I mean, I read O'Donnell and I myself had several water births.

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And I there's a lot through observation I agree with.

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Absolutely.

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ah I was the type of person who leave me and leave me alone and I'll in the birth pool.

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felt safe in a birth pool because it was my space.

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Nobody was going to get into that space.

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very interestingly.

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And it's funny, if say you have early contractions at home and you're wandering around,

you're in a comfortable position, you're in a comfortable place, you're in your home, and

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therefore you feel safe.

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And they're really getting on, and this is a scenario that happens so many times, that you

move the mom, the mom goes to the hospital, she thinks, okay,

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And you know, I'm contracting every three minutes, whatever.

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Move, move, move.

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And as soon as she gets in that car and gets to hospital, all the contractions stop.

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It's like, it's this cat scenario.

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It's the cat under the bed.

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If she's giving birth under the bed, you move her, she stops.

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Because you've changed her environment.

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And I've seen it so many times.

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unbelievable because a woman has to feel secure and safe ah generally to get on with

having a baby.

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uh

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This is again, some of the again personal reflection, but when I when I am getting to the

42 week stage, it's I am coming into hospital at the earliest twinge and I'm just going to

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sit here until the baby arrives.

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I'm not because then I can settle.

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can settle and just be like, right, this is where it's happening.

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And it's makes a huge difference.

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Yeah, just getting comfortable in Coati.

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Sure, it's not home, but you can make it.

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It becomes this nest, this space.

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Again, one of the things I say is very much, I am not having any students coming in.

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People just go away.

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As you say, leave me alone.

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Leave me alone.

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And yeah, being settled is a really important part of it.

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Posties arrive.

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I'll take it.

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I think, em yeah, with a good birth means, ah I think, having an open mind, because we

never know what's gonna happen.

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We don't know how it's gonna go.

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And keeping positive.

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And my best advice is you only have to do one contraction at a time.

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Yes.

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because they only last about 60 seconds.

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And believe you me, you can do about anything for 60 seconds because it stops after that.

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And then you can breathe, walk around, have some lunch.

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um It's when people, uh they're contracting, contracting, and then they go, shall we do an

internal, see how many centimeters you are applying?

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And they've been cracking on.

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think you can do such a good job.

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They do an internal and they go, Oh, you're only three centimeters.

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I think what happens is the woman's mind goes catastrophic.

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I can't do this for another five hours.

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And that that's, that's when you have to scrape them off the ceiling because it becomes

overwhelming.

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And you just think, I can't do this.

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But if you bring yourself back to, I only have to do one contraction at a time.

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That's all.

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Be in the moment.

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And you've only got one to get through and you can breathe through that.

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You do gas in there or whatever.

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um When you get your head around that, I find it makes the most difference of all.

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because it's not about different pain reliefs this and that next thing.

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It's in your head.

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A lot of it.

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mean, the pain and how you feel pain is increased by the fact if you're not breathing,

you're not well.

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Actually, your pain threshold goes down.

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You sure must need oxygen, funny enough.

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So does the baby.

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So yeah, to...

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uh

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Because when you're in pain, your first uh reaction is to go, oh hold your breath and

tense up.

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That's your first reaction to pain.

466

So it's going, oh, let's relax.

467

Let's get our shoulders out of our ears and breathe and go with it.

468

Let's let it, let it come, let it go and don't be afraid of it.

469

Because the fear, the anxiety, the stress, the tension, it all makes everything worse.

470

Yeah.

471

Yeah.

472

Yeah.

473

But yeah, that's my little bit of advice.

474

One contraction at a time.

475

and very much being in the moment.

476

Yeah, it's all you have to do.

477

It's not a big thing.

478

Yeah, we can do little things.

479

We can do little things and they all add up and they all add up, which is, yeah.

480

And then you get a baby.

481

Hands up to make a baby.

482

A little miracle at the end.

483

uh

484

at the end.

485

Using the word miracle, I'm going to flip this round because it is how many days before

Christmas?

486

Three days before Christmas.

487

And we were saying, this is what I love about Catholicism actually, is how the liturgical

year follows some very, very human um experiences.

488

um

489

For example, have, coming back earlier in the year, have Lent, which is in the springtime

usually at the time when food is dwindling that has been stored over winter.

490

Easter appears, springtime is happening and you've got Christ and his resurrection and the

food starts coming.

491

So there's something quite fitting and powerful there.

492

Advent, and then obviously we have Christmas.

493

I was saying to you before we started, Advent is this time of waiting.

494

Time of waiting before we have the birth of Christ, birth of the Messiah.

495

But for a lot of mums who have the children, Advent is a bit like the nesting before

Christmas, where you're running around getting everything ready.

496

um But then Christmas itself, really reflecting on how our Lady is quite...

497

We have midnight mass.

498

which is when Christ is born at night somewhere quiet she's settled she's not interrupted

499

Mm-hmm.

500

There's a lot there.

501

What are your kind of reflections as a midwife?

502

Your sort of reflections on Christmas, women, babies, birth.

503

Oh, you know, as a midwife is a privilege, absolute privilege to be with with women giving

birth.

504

Because it's.

505

Such every time is so special and such a miracle and the joy that you feel ah when that

baby appears is undescribable and makes everything so worth it.

506

Yeah, it's hard.

507

It's hard work.

508

It's a process and nobody ever said it was going to be.

509

easy and pain-free and not worth the work.

510

They call it labor for a reason.

511

It is work.

512

um But the joy and the peace and the love that you see, you get to see this mom holding a

baby and the love that she has.

513

um You can almost touch it.

514

You you can feel it.

515

It's such a miracle and it's such a privilege to be there at that time just to be

observing in the corner, you know, doing my bits I have to do and yeah, it is wonderful.

516

Absolutely wonderful.

517

Yeah, a real gift.

518

yes, and Christmas is, I suppose, that extra gift, isn't it?

519

yeah.

520

You can make a comparison.

521

Yeah, absolutely.

522

Between mom's giving birth in the dark and in the quiet and Jesus and Mary.

523

And she was obviously the ultimate mom.

524

uh I think she might have had some angelic help.

525

I hear Joseph was asleep.

526

And so there she was, just getting on with it quietly.

527

Oh dear.

528

Yeah.

529

No, it's lovely.

530

I also reflect, sometimes we'll go to the eight o'clock mass, the mass of the dawn on

Christmas day.

531

And it's always quite a quiet one because you have the big one at mid-morning.

532

So that's the big one with all the hoopla.

533

But the eight o'clock mass, it always makes me think of that when you've had that first

night with the newborn and the sunlight comes in the dawn and you're holding the baby and

534

you go, wow.

535

And it's that.

536

quiet wonder before everybody starts coming and goes oh my gosh the baby's here how

wonderful and you can't believe it so that's the 10 o'clock mass eight o'clock mass mass

537

yeah mass of the Lord is just that mother and baby quiet awe and wonder yeah

538

And yeah, you try and give people that.

539

You're trying to give the moms that as well.

540

As a midwife, you try and go, I'll just...

541

Yeah.

542

Yeah.

543

Yeah.

544

Just leave.

545

And let that wonder happen.

546

Yeah.

547

Beautiful.

548

Often gone to the midnight mass and I don't even think I've been to the dawn mass and I

think I might try it this year.

549

uh

550

it a go.

551

It's quite a different tone but it's wonderful.

552

It's wonderful.

553

yes, no, brilliant.

554

Lisa, have you got anything else to add?

555

Any top tips for mums who are going to have babies soon or...

556

I mean, we've given the one about in the actual birth being sort of one contraction, being

in the moment, you just got to get through next contraction.

557

Any other top tips?

558

Yeah, have your space.

559

Have your little bag and always have a bag packed anyway, because you just never know.

560

Yeah, just be prepared.

561

That's a good scout.

562

Yeah, be prepared.

563

And um if you've got an instinct as a mom and you think something, tell somebody.

564

Definitely.

565

ah

566

And if you feel like you're not being listened to, say it again.

567

Until somebody does listen to you.

568

because I find that's important.

569

Yeah, don't skip things if you think something you tell people.

570

Don't keep it to yourself.

571

yeah.

572

Don't be dismissed.

573

Yes.

574

Mm Yeah, it's a that's a good tip.

575

Definitely.

576

And always.

577

Yeah, food.

578

um Yeah, do some food prep uh afterwards.

579

You just don't.

580

Some I was wandering around for like after three months in my dressing gown in the

afternoon going, I don't have time for a uh

581

uh I don't know what happens, uh but somehow your organizational skills go really out the

window when you have a little person to look after.

582

ah Yeah, sleep when the baby sleeps, wake when the baby's awake, and eat plenty, and say

yes to all offers of help, even though you might not like the person, just say yes.

583

Of course you can do my laundry.

584

Yes, you can bring me some food.

585

Yes, you can do that.

586

Don't say, no, no, no, we'll do it.

587

Uh-uh.

588

No, just offer all offers of help.

589

Yeah, I actually created a couple of resources for pregnancy and birth.

590

And one of them was like the ultimate postpartum meal prep pack, which sounds like we're

going to off the tongue.

591

And it's got kind of recipes in there, but it's also got how to ask for help, which I

think a lot of we struggle with because a lot of women is like, no, no, I can do this.

592

I can crack on.

593

I'll be fine.

594

I'll be fine.

595

It's just, you know, popping out a baby and life continues.

596

No.

597

No, it's a trauma.

598

Having a baby, it changes your life.

599

it does.

600

It does.

601

And in a good way, I would have had more.

602

mean, I just think children are wonderful.

603

They're amazing.

604

And they change your life in a good way.

605

And it's almost like uh you get a picture of what God the Father is looking down and

thinking about us.

606

You look down at your children and think, what?

607

But it's that same unconditional love I think God has for us and how we kind of run around

in our stupidity ah and think funny things and God knows exactly.

608

And it's like how we look at our children and we can see the whole picture and the child

only sees a little section.

609

And we are like those children.

610

We only see a little section.

611

And God Father sees the big picture.

612

And it gives you a bit of an insight to how being a parent is similar to how God the

Father sees us and how we are his children.

613

Yeah.

614

uh

615

It's an unconditional love.

616

And you just think, of course I would love my, I'll never forget my child.

617

I love my child.

618

Yeah.

619

And how God the father looks at us and says, I'll never forget you.

620

I love you unconditionally.

621

yep, no, that's wonderful.

622

Lisa, something for us to um prey on and mull on, I think, on that note.

623

Okay.

624

Now, normally I'd say to my listeners, you where can people find out more about you?

625

But you are Lisa of the parish.

626

But if anybody has any questions, feel free to email me and then I will pass them on to

Lisa and then I'm sure she will be able to.

627

will endeavor to answer your questions.

628

answer your questions.

629

Thank you so much.

630

All right then.

631

Thank you.

632

And if you have found this episode useful, please do like, share and subscribe.

633

Share it with another mum that you know of.

634

All the subscribes help get the word out and just grateful for your help.

635

Thank you so much, Lisa.

636

Have a very Merry Christmas and thank you.

637

Thank you and you have a Merry Christmas and to all the lovely listeners.

638

God bless.

639

you, Lisa.

640

Is it stopping?

641

It's stopping.